February 2, 2018 at 8:21 am #1351control-arcSpectator
hello, just wondering if any one can help me clear up a confusion i have with welding operator certification to AS 1796, and the difference between qualified and certified.
i have been told by a few well respected welding supervisors that there is difference between "CERTIFIED" and "QUALIFIED" and that although a welding operator may be "CERTIFIED" to AS 1796 (eg: welding ticket 8G) this does not "QUALIFY" the welding operator to weld without being "QUALIFIED" and tested to the required code (eg AS 1554.1).
Just recently i have been told by another well respected welding supervisor that an operator "CERTIFIED" to AS1796 is NOT! required to be "QUALIFIED" to a code like AS1554.1 and is right to weld with out testing providing the procedure is "Qualified".
AS 1554.1 clause 4.12.2 (a) states "welders QUALIFIED to codes such as 1796 shall be deemed to be qualified" but says nothing about certified.
i just want to clear this up as i have recently passsed the welding supervisor test and want to get this right so as not go around spreading incorrect information,i personally believe in qualifying welding operators to the code requirements wether they are ticketed or not to ensure quality welds.February 3, 2018 at 12:29 am #1354February 3, 2018 at 10:12 am #1350February 4, 2018 at 2:31 am #1357cassgazzSpectator
But if that “certified” welder has not welded for 6 months with a certain process, he/she needs to be “re-qualified”.
Using AS1554, The only advantage of using a certified welder is that one test piece in pipe – 6G position – is enough to qualify for all positions ( except vertical down ) and all weld procedures using one process, whareas an “uncertified” welder will need to a weld test with a macro taken for ALL weld procedures utilised on the job.
Hope that makes sense.February 5, 2018 at 1:17 am #1358FlashSpectator
Yo are right on the money BB
I agree particularly with the “proceed at your own risk” using certified welders without a recent qualification, unless they have a known track record
FlashFebruary 5, 2018 at 1:40 am #1378charlie strayarcSpectator
First post and just my 2cents worth on this topic.
In my very humble opinion a certified welder (particularly AS1796) has gone to some effort regarding education and theory and knows a great deal more about why (heat input etc) welding metallurgy (heat affected zones and the like) wheras a qualified only welder may not even have trade papers and just learnt to pass an xray test.
Years ago a leading Perth fab company was paying $1 per hour more for Coded welders with AS 1796 for this reason.I personally beleive this is a true coded welder.
And yeah they still need to qualify for each job/employer etcFebruary 5, 2018 at 3:39 am #1381February 5, 2018 at 6:04 am #1401
Found this in the draft of AS/NZS 1554.5 2008.
Now keep in mind the clauses for welder qualification in Part 1 and Part 5 were exactly the same in the 2004 versions of both.
Reapproval shall be required if any of the following conditions apply:
(a) Six months or more have elapsed since the welder was employed on the relevant
(b) For other than welders qualified to AS/NZS 2980, NZS 4711 or ISO 9606 1, the
welder changes employment. Under such circumstances, the new employer shall
qualify the welder who has changed employment.
Clause (b) has been added but no reference to AS 1796 or AS/NZS 3992 as found in 126.96.36.199 below
188.8.131.52 Qualification via Standards
Qualifications obtained by welders under appropriate Standards laying down welder
qualification tests are acceptable as evidence of their ability. Such evidence shall refer to
welding carried out on joints and in positions as close as practicable to the actual joints and
positions to be used in construction. Welders qualified to Standards such as AS 1796,
AS/NZS 2980, AS/NZS 3992, NZS 4711 or ISO 9606-1 shall be deemed to be qualified
Not sure why they are omitted ?
BBFebruary 5, 2018 at 7:02 am #1377
Firstly, trying to explain the reasoning behind AS/NZS 1554 is a challenge in itself.
Any code / standard that is 106 pages long and needs a 100 page commentary (WTIA Tech Note 11) to explain it has got to be a mission.
In answer to your question.
When a welder qualifies to AS/NZS 1554 for Employer A he is only qualified to work for Employer A. If he leaves and goes to Employer B his qualification becomes null and void and he must requalify for Employer B.
If a welder arrives at Employer A with AS 1796 or AS 2980 certification (as examples) he is automatically qualified to weld to AS/NZS 1554 (within the essential variables of their original qualification) Simplest way to explain it is they are basically given a “temporary” qualification to weld in accordance with AS/NZS 1554.
If he then leaves and goes to Employer B the process is again repeated, no need to requalify as he is covered by his original “certification”.
Hope that clarifies,
BBFebruary 5, 2018 at 8:13 am #1422Brogden-85Spectator
I am nearly mid way through my AS1796 8F, would i be corrent in saying that the only real benifet to doing this cause is if I want to continue further with my training and become a welding supervisor AS 1796 cet 10. As this is the reason for me inrolling in the cause. Because every where I have worked will make you take weld test no matter what certifications/qulifications you have.February 5, 2018 at 8:21 am #1421FlashSpectator
you are right when you say “most organisations require a weld test”, but does this make an AS1796 certificate worthless, No
it gives you the opportunity to increase your knowledge and skills
AS1796 requires that you work to a relatively strict criteria, something that welders need to learn to do
It also requires you to complete a post trade theory component
most employers would “typically” give someone with a certificate a start before someone without
My opinion is it is well worth it
PS, what are you doing the root on the pipe with
FlashFebruary 5, 2018 at 8:24 am #1609daveo84Spectator
AS1554 isn’t just a one weld one material type code. If you change materials, position, thickness of material etc, you will need to qualify to weld to these parameters in the PQR to get the WQR.February 5, 2018 at 9:31 am #1371
BB, thanks for your reply (its great to have experienced guys like you on here)..
I understand and agree what AS1796 – clause 2.5.5 says (meaning that “Certification” never expires unless) :
(a) The welder is incapable of undertaking his required duties.
(b) The certificate has been proven to be fraudulently obtained or illegally used or both.
can you help explain why AS1554 talks about “Reapproval or Qualification SHALL be required if any of the following conditions apply:”
(ii) The welder changes employment. Under such circumstances, the new employer shallqualify the welder who has changed employment.
This sounds like a contradiction to me! It does not exempt ‘Certified’ welders certified to AS796 etc…. and says ‘Shall’.
IGFebruary 5, 2018 at 10:55 am #1379
BB, Wow this is Huge!!!!!. My company at present requires all welders to be re-qualified every 6 months regardless of certifications. We currently have over 200 welders on-site and expecting 30-40 more. You can imagine the costs, logistics and tracability nightmare for the QA department. I am new to this company and was told that the senior welding inspector/engineer has requested this. We are working to AWD, AWS, MIL, ISO standards but i’m not sure if any of these standards require this?
AS1554 clause 4.12.2 (a) only states welders ‘qualified’ to As1796 etc are deemed qualified (meaning pressure welders ‘qualified’ to pressure weld for company A can structural weld within company A without qualifying providing they dont change processes…no mention about ‘certified’ welders being exempt from ‘qualification’).
Also in the first edition of WeldED 2010 (under the news tab on this website) is an article about AS1554 structural QA and welder qualifications (page 19) – “Additional welders for the project must complete a weld test coupon within the essential variables of the weld precedure”.
page 20 – Welder re-validation- ” essentailly states that welders must be tested every 6 months via NDT to ensure compliance”. and the NDE applied to the work scope extends the revalidation….Does not mention coded welders to AS1796 are exempt.
BB, can you please post some reference material, clauses or information from Australian Standards or American standards (if your aware) for me to research and read which could save myself and others a lot of time and money. I will need proof in writing if I am to change the system at work if its not needed! This might bring me a promotion!!! ;D
I appreciate your time and effort BB.
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